Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

All that pretty stuff that we so desperately need. Even if it's just an idea or some concept art.

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Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby Qworg » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:34 pm

First, IANAA (I am not an artist).

I'm very interested in procedural content generation. I believe that for a project this size, we can't draw every asset/planet/etc. I'd love to work with some of ya'll to knock out ways to generate our content/tools you need to have a handle on what's coming out of the algorithms.

Comments? Concerns? Deep Thoughts?

Thanks!
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby clonk2u » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:39 pm

Well, if this project gnaws its arm out of the bear trap, and somehow does survive, I figure planets will either be pulled from a group of template planets and populated with things like ores and buildings(these would be separate models), or generated with random specs and then populated. Either way, artists will probably be creating little things, and very rarely be making full spaceships(if at all).
What we really need for tools is to be able to send assets in a variety of formats, most commonly blend and .obj. However .obj does not support animation data, so I would recommend that you cover some of the autodesk file formats if possible. Being able to send a model without exporting gives artist more confidence that what they have made is what you are getting. Another invaluable tool would be some sort of building/viewing program, where we can see how our models will render in-game and if they cause massive lag .
Speaking of rendering, lighting is an issue, as lights are objects with a huge amount of data attached, and if lights have to be created in the game, then we need a way to create, test, and check them.
Thank you for your time and concern, the art team is slowing fading and dying, simply because we have no purpose.
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby Qworg » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:08 pm

Breaking this into a series of requirements:

  • A tool for sending assets to the game engine
    * Support for blend, .obj, and... .stl?
  • A rendering engine that is game engine representative
    * Metrics for imported models
  • Accurate/Good looking "space lighting"

On my side, I'd like to work directly with you guys on things like "spaceship part models". This will be so we can use those parts to procedurally generate ships - players will make some, but the NPC ships will be generated by our algorithms. This requires us to have some sort of rules about what can be attached where, how they attach, etc.
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby clonk2u » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:58 pm

Qworg wrote:On my side, I'd like to work directly with you guys on things like "spaceship part models". This will be so we can use those parts to procedurally generate ships - players will make some, but the NPC ships will be generated by our algorithms. This requires us to have some sort of rules about what can be attached where, how they attach, etc.


Well, if you have ever played Sim City(the new one), Sims 3, Kerbal Space Program, and/or Spore, you will see the advantages of a modular system for something like this.I think you should go for a more rigid system, and here is how I propose we do it:

1. Start by building square rooms, you can create curved rooms in the following process.
Image
As you can, the player makes 2 boxes, removes the inner walls, and then adds the curve of choice to the corner(some basic ideas are shown)

2. Build Hull, the roofs in Sims 3 are a good starting point, though the addition of KSP like modules for specific things would be a nice feature.(I don't have a rigid design for this in my head)

3. Add Equipment. This stage should allow for the player to swap between room view and hull view for placing both interior and exterior equipment.
*Note, some equipment should have extra modules that are visually added on when the unit is upgraded SimCity style.

4. Painting/Naming/Ascetics. This should again allow an interior and exterior view.

The build system should allow the player to switch between any of these stages at any time, and while that would allow hull break for adding another room and so on, it would encourage the player to have an overall visual ascetic. The build system should also have a blueprint system for repairs and building clones(also ship trading).



*This is my personal vision for this game and is no way the official ship building process.
*Sorry about the broken picture, if you click view you can see it, though all 3 steps are displayed in the forum without need to view the right half of the last step.
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby ChemicalRascal » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:33 am

Qworg, it's a minor note, but I'd just point out that we aren't planning on having an NPC-heavy experience at all. Perhaps in Single Player, but Multi Player (and, hence, the "first pass" of the game) will focus on player-player interactions.

I know it's annoying that you guys are operating without guidance at the moment as to what we hope to achieve overall, and I'm sorry for that. I know that personally there's a bunch of stuff happening in life that's slowing myself down on that topic, but I do plan to soon be able to give you guys a design document soon so we can finally step on the gas.
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby Qworg » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:24 am

Even with said revelation, I'm going to continue. I'm looking to work towards the future, since this will take long enough anyways.

clonk2u -

Snap blending of components both inside and out. Should hulls have to have some sort of symmetry?
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby mrout » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:18 am

In KSP, you can turn on mirroring. If a player does that, their hull should be symmetrical. If not, it shouldn't, IMO.
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby Andrew » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:03 am

mrout wrote:In KSP, you can turn on mirroring. If a player does that, their hull should be symmetrical. If not, it shouldn't, IMO.


I like the idea of both supporting mirrored and asymmetrical hulls.
IRC: |Andy|
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby mrout » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:16 am

It basically comes down to this: I think we should support asymmetrical ships. If we support asymmetrical ships, people will be rightfully very angry with us if we make them place everything symmetrically manually, haha. Therefore we should support symmetry.

KSP allowed you to place things mirrored every 180 degrees (every 1/2), 120 degrees (every 1/3), 90 degrees (every 1/4), 60 degrees (every 1/6), 45 degrees (every 1/8). If we provide at least those, preferably with 1/5 and 1/7 as well, that'd be fucking awesome.
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Re: Working with Artists (Procedural Content Generation)

Postby clonk2u » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:55 am

mrout wrote:It basically comes down to this: I think we should support asymmetrical ships. If we support asymmetrical ships, people will be rightfully very angry with us if we make them place everything symmetrically manually, haha. Therefore we should support symmetry.

KSP allowed you to place things mirrored every 180 degrees (every 1/2), 120 degrees (every 1/3), 90 degrees (every 1/4), 60 degrees (every 1/6), 45 degrees (every 1/8). If we provide at least those, preferably with 1/5 and 1/7 as well, that'd be fucking awesome.


KSP provided mirroring and rotational symmetry, I don't know how rotational symmetry would work for this, but being able to copy multiple sections of hull at the same time would be another feature to add, so players could built a great looking engine pod, and then copy the hole thing(with symmetry on this would create 4 engine pods).
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