The background, more in-depth

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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Talvi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:38 pm

That actually makes a lot of sense, and adds a little more to the doomsday scenario feel, whereas with the "fleeing the AI" backstory puts you far away from it to make it insignificant.

A couple things, though. First, if aliens really wanted to hunt us down and kill us, why stop with Earth? Why let us escape? (Not poking flaws, by the way, seeking to expand.) It would be neat if we came up with a story as to how we managed to escape the aliens to begin with, too. And, then again, the first issue - why has tech only advanced as far as 16-bit computers when 32-bit should be so close behind?

edit: I didn't see your edit.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby DarkSpartan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:43 pm

My thinking on that was that they had something they needed nearby (relatively speaking), and attacked us to scatter us and nullify any sort of potential threat. Then later, when they realize that they made the problem worse, they sent the AI in to send us back to the stone age.

My thinking is that I wouldn't want to be them when we finally figure out what the hell went on.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Talvi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:50 pm

A couple other things I'd like to be able to explain - first, how does computer tech not advance anywhere in several hundred years, and second, how do we manage to populate a goodly-sized portion of the galaxy in the time? (thought of these after I read your edit.)

All the same, that could add a fun twist to the game, if you're fighting an alien enemy in addition to simply pirates and other players. Your explanation does make sense - they just wanted to knock us down to where we couldn't be any threat to them... Perhaps they didn't quite realize what they were doing and damaged Earth's environment to where we couldn't stably live there? That would explain why Earth's population had to flee. I doubt the entire population could flee, though. That would take a ludicrous amount of resources - essentially turning all of Earth's cities into giant ships.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby DarkSpartan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:54 pm

That's at least a couple of hundred years wherein we had to rediscover the technology up to and including the transistor. These days, we keep the 90% of our information on the internet. The destruction of that would be akin to the firing of the Great Library at Alexandria.

Now envision that on the scale of an interstellar empire.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Talvi » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:36 pm

All right, so, from the top - let me see if I can get this straight. I'll bold the stuff that isn't explained yet.

It's the far future, and humanity has managed to expand enough to fill up a cluster of worlds close to the home system of Sol. Humanity's technology has advanced far enough that we have developed incredible computers and superluminal travel, which, while somewhat inefficient, can get us from point A to point B in hours instead of millenia. It's not enough to leap across the galaxy in an instant - perhaps it can only jump so far at a time, or long distances require an exponentially larger amount of fuel? But for whatever reason, there are only a relatively small number of worlds close to home that have been colonized ("relatively small" still being enough to number in the thousands).
At some point, we push one world too far in the wrong direction and attract the attention of the "Aliens". (We really need a name for them, and the most immediately obvious one is the name we don't have a purpose for - "Trillek" - but I'll keep calling them "aliens" for now, just in case you don't like that idea.) The aliens feel threatened by our progress and our aggressive encroachment on their territories, and send in a strike team - not to wipe us out, but as a warning. Somehow they know exactly where our home planet is, as they send in a strike team and nuke Earth specifically, rather than just nuking the colonies that have pushed too far. For obvious reasons, this doesn't destabilize humanity much at all - we've already expanded too far in most directions, and the value of Earth, while significant, isn't enough to really cause major problems. An inevitable war starts, with humanity attacking the aliens. After a brief war, the aliens develop a viral technology strong enough to destroy humanity's computers over the Internet - how, I have no idea, as viruses don't typically target hardware. At this point, the aliens are able to invade and take over human territory with relative ease, and humanity somehow manages to escape our alien overlords. The portion of humanity that escapes flees to an isolated portion of the galaxy for some period of time between a century and a millenium while they regroup.
Eventually humanity tries to go back to their long-forgotten homeworlds, and manages to repopulate some select core worlds, creating various new empires, although these effort are met with minor resistance from the aliens, who don't seem quite as keen as before on keeping us away. Somewhere around here, humanity eventually manages to remember how to create 16-bit computers - the technological development having been massively impeded by some undefined force. The technological development will continue over the course of the game, obviously, and this is about where our heroes, the players, are plopped into the middle of the mess.



Possible explanation for why the aliens managed to nuke Earth, but nothing else:
The aliens are a species that have been around for a long, long, long time - at least 100k years. At some point in their past, they were interested in exploring the galaxy. They obviously would've colonized many worlds, just like Earth did, but perhaps their biology was unique enough that they couldn't find any technology suitable for it - or their lifespans were short enough that the process of terraforming a planet simply wasn't feasible. At any rate, during their period of exploration, they came across earth, and its then-primitive humanoids. They mark it on their star charts and continue on their merry way.
Eventually there's nothing left for them to explore, and they've withdrawn to a core area of the galaxy, content with what they've found. Maybe their culture doesn't have the same pioneering drive that humans do, and they have no interest in what is to them "pointless expansion". They stop looking around, and as they aren't monitoring humanity, they don't know we're still expanding. It's unlikely that we could create any massive changes on the scale of a star system, so not even their stargazers would know we were colonizing worlds around us.
When they decide they need to stop us from expanding, so that we won't take over their space - perhaps they nuke the nearby colonies AND earth - believing that they've wiped us out and stopped any threat we pose to them.


Just my thoughts, and I'm interested to hear what you think of them.

Edit: I would like to note that I'm not saying your ideas are dumb or anything - I do this to my own story plots too. =P The idea is you try to destroy whatever you come up with, and if everything holds together when you, the creator, gives it your best shot at pulling it apart, the reader or player isn't likely to find anything wrong with it either on a simple read/playthrough. Usually best to get more than one person picking it apart, tho.
Last edited by Talvi on Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Zardoz » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:47 pm

Warp 9 is 729c --> WF = cubic_sqrt(V/C)

The idea of a falling Human Galactic Empire is very old and used a lot of times.... in games like WarHammer 40k, BattleMech, Anacreon, Emperor of the Fading Suns, etc...

I think, that we not need the idea that the old empire expanded across the whole galaxy. Like you say, is pretty huge (50000LY -> 68 years approx to cross the entire galaxy) Focusing only in a area of 1000-500 LY or less could be more reasonable (1,3-0,68 Years of travel at Warp 9 !) and you have a awful quantity of stars to explore in a region of these size.
[ur=http://starviewer.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/50ly1.gifl] Our stellar Neighborhood [/url]

I like the idea of a AI rebellion war (fake or not) to explain why computer tech is too primitive... even we could found NPCs that are mentats xD .

The fall also could come from unrest coming from a more and more government class that are away from the reality of the people, plus some king of big astronomic event like a gamma-burst or a supernova in the neighborhood (Betelgeuse!) that did a massive damage to nearly all electronic equipment, loosing huge amounts of knowledge stored in computers and destroying the inter-stellar communication and navigation systems. Without FTL communications working and with a huge loss of knowledge and a marginal fraction of advanced tech equipment working, every planet must to self-govenment and could decay more and more in barbarism and superstition, thanks to the unrest rising from the situation. It could take some centuries to recover to a level that allow to cross the stars again, but now they not are united, there is rising piracy, space wars, etc... Other planets could be fallen too much, being the population wiped or being stuck in a pre-industrial tech state, so could be interesting to find this old forgotten planets were perhaps you can find some hidden old pre-fall tech that works yet. Also, could be debris of old ships/stations of the pre-fall that get damaged in space by the astronomic event, with the creq dead (or not) by starving,etc...
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby radar37 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:22 am

EDIT: In case anyone saw, I made a post but I moved it here so this thread wouldn't be derailed.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Talvi » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:30 pm

DarkSpartan explained some of the stuff I mentioned in the previous post. It's pretty hard to debate on anything... I think DarkSpartan decided on most of this before I showed up.

It's not enough to leap across the galaxy in an instant - perhaps it can only jump so far at a time, or long distances require an exponentially larger amount of fuel?
When earth is attacked, some of the alien ships are lost. We're able to figure out FTL travel by salvaging and studying the alien technology. This is a new theme - to me, at least. If it's been done, I haven't heard of it.

We really need a name for them, and the most immediately obvious one is the name we don't have a purpose for - "Trillek" - but I'll keep calling them "aliens" for now, just in case you don't like that idea.
Not answered, so I'm just going to call them "Trillek".

Somehow they know exactly where our home planet is, as they send in a strike team and nuke Earth specifically, rather than just nuking the colonies that have pushed too far.
Not explained how they know where our home planet is yet, but earth IS going to be the ONLY planet humans are living on up until the strike, in DarkSpartan's version.

After a brief war, the aliens develop a viral technology strong enough to destroy humanity's computers over the Internet - how, I have no idea, as viruses don't typically target hardware.
DarkSpartan calls it "The Reversal" - and I'm still not sure how viruses can destroy hardware.

At this point, the aliens are able to invade and take over human territory with relative ease, and humanity somehow manages to escape our alien overlords.
Still not explained how we get away with escaping after everything is wiped. It could be a one-off thing, and the aliens just write a virus to toy with us, but really, I think a sentient race would have some purpose in what they do beyond toying with another sentient species.

[Recolonization is] met with minor resistance from the aliens, who don't seem quite as keen as before on keeping us away.
Still not explained... I think that if they nuked our planet, then tried to send us into barbarism, they would try a little harder to defeat us the next time around.

The technological development having been massively impeded by some undefined force.
Given that humans had access to the knowledge to create complex computers, it would make sense that somebody, somewhere, would have the knowledge in their heads of how to create new ones... I can see the equipment used to create the computers getting destroyed, but not the minds of the people who created those. still not explained in entirety.


There's also the issue of how all computers get destroyed all at once, despite them being many light years away from each other, and that no virus could possibly travel faster than the speed of light.


More from DarkSpartan:
Edited about the above:
Earth has no colonies before the Trillek invasion - only Earth. When Earth is attacked through biological warfare, whatever the Trillek do causes the environment to decay slowly, gradually making Earth a living (or dying, in this case) Hell. Earth fights back during the attack, of course, and manages to knock one or more Trillek ships out of the sky, which they salvage and use to research FTL travel in an astonishing ten to twenty years, at the same time building starships to evacuate as much of Earth's 10-20 billions as possible. These colony ships hold humans stacked like sardines in cryostasis pods, necessary to reserve space, and each of them is capable of interstellar travel. They reach their destinations quickly, and humanity founds a small interstellar empire from these new colonists. In the meantime, Earth decays, and many billions of lives are lost. But that's okay! :D In the course of 150 years (still seems pretty short), we're able to create a much larger interstellar empire. Maybe we just spread our population really thin, I don't know - but that's when "The Reversal" takes place and our computer tech is destroyed.

Zardoz - I'll get to yours soon (may have to add it onto this post) - I have to log off for now.


EDITED FOR ZARDOZ:

"Warp" is a value that varies widely depending on who you talk to, and which Star Trek series you're talking about. I think I went with The Next Generation values, which was personal preference - I preferred that series over the original.

As to a human galactic empire falling, yes, it's been used many times, and I'm personally more for the idea that humans have only managed to occupy perhaps a sixteenth of the galaxy. Even this would be an astronomically large amount to deal with.

As to the AI rebellion war, I really like that idea too - so long as we're the ones trying to break free of the AI. Otherwise, it's just been done too many times. In The Matrix, you have humanity trying to take Earth back, and the same in Terminator. You never have them actually fleeing Earth, though.

I'm still really, really, really for a good quantity of different randomly generated factions ingame - that way there could be some kind of dynamic diplomatic system. You could forge alliances with different star clusters, and wage war on others... Some might accept new visitors, and others might shut new visitors out completely, or offer passage in return for something. Maybe some might even try to charge a toll or something, or maybe a "visitation fee". Frankly, without a centralized, unified government, I think that humanity would fall apart and fight among itself, rather than hold hands and sing Kumbaya, or some interstellar version of "I'd Like To Buy The World A Coke". I also really love the idea of ruined space stations and dead colonies.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Tamer » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:14 am

"Regardless, robots are out of the question. There are no robots, nor can there be. Otherwise there aren't 16-bit CPUs. Robots can't run on that."

I disagree. robots could run on crappy computers if they had simple enough algorithms as to how to react to sensors. for instance, if they feel themselves bump into a wall, they turn. Robots would be blind, blumbering idiots.
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Re: The background, more in-depth

Postby Krarl » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:56 am

You keep posting on 5 months old threads ;)
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